Comments on: New Flush Drowning Research For Kayakers https://paddlingmag.com/skills/safety-rescue-skills/flush-drowning-research/ Thu, 31 Jul 2025 03:37:35 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.8.2 By: Jim hood https://paddlingmag.com/skills/safety-rescue-skills/flush-drowning-research/#comment-107353 Thu, 31 Jul 2025 03:37:35 +0000 https://paddlingmag.com/?p=34357#comment-107353 Many victims have little water in their pulmonary tree due to laryngeal spasm. Victims even know
They are experiencing this. It alone can kill you as those of us who practice anesthesia know. The three events; cold shock, poor conditioning and laryngeal spasm in my estimation are the primary causes of west coast “flush” drowning. More floatation and warmer clothing and some sort of mask that can keep water out of airways without hindering large volumes of inspiration could be the answer. Think of it, reducing skin cancer at the same time reducing drowning risks with a mask of some sort. Only somewhat serious here. Happy Paddling!

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By: David Bland https://paddlingmag.com/skills/safety-rescue-skills/flush-drowning-research/#comment-107301 Wed, 30 Jul 2025 21:19:33 +0000 https://paddlingmag.com/?p=34357#comment-107301 Swimming in any long rapid is absolutely exhausting.
Add together cold water shock and the need to take in elevated levels of oxygen from effort (bear in mind generally by the time you bail, you have already been fighting to not bail) and it’s easy for panic to set in. Pile on top of that regular dunking – and the need to gasp for air is paramount.
But what really makes the difference is splashes hitting the back of the throat as you gasp for air.
This causes either a total lock-up of breathing ability or a coughing fit. It’s only then a roll of the dice how you make out.
Give steep me a rocky swim every time.

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By: Moulton Avery https://paddlingmag.com/skills/safety-rescue-skills/flush-drowning-research/#comment-54070 Sat, 11 Nov 2023 02:08:16 +0000 https://paddlingmag.com/?p=34357#comment-54070 In reply to David Allen.

Aerobic capacity is important. There are very real limits as to the type of research that you’re suggesting – these are both ethical and practical in nature. Also, research is both time consuming and expensive to conduct. Funding is finite, and the whitewater-related research that you suggest, while very interesting, would have a low probability of getting funded. You also can’t determine the aerobic capacity of a drowning victim. And since drownings occur in a variety of circumstances on wildly different rivers, standardization is going to be very elusive. What would be far easier to accomplish – and illuminating – is a study that compared flush drownings on cold rivers with wearing or not wearing thermal protection.

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By: Moulton Avery https://paddlingmag.com/skills/safety-rescue-skills/flush-drowning-research/#comment-54069 Sat, 11 Nov 2023 02:00:23 +0000 https://paddlingmag.com/?p=34357#comment-54069 In reply to Constantine Roussos.

I would say that the “correlation between cold water and drowning” is not only valid, but very well established. The physiological response has been well-researched by environmental physiologists, and the mechanism has been explained in detail. The cold water connection is best understood when one recognizes that cold shock is synonymous with a complete loss of breathing control. One aspect of this is a greatly diminished ability to hold one’s breath.

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By: Moulton Avery https://paddlingmag.com/skills/safety-rescue-skills/flush-drowning-research/#comment-54068 Sat, 11 Nov 2023 01:54:56 +0000 https://paddlingmag.com/?p=34357#comment-54068 In reply to Marc.

It’s possible to acclimate to cold water and either reduce or eliminate the cold shock response. We discuss that here: https://www.coldwatersafety.org/acclimation-to-cold-water. When being flushed through rapids, aerobic capacity matters – the key element being “How long can you hold your breath?” Also, we know a lot about drowning, and the phenomenon of sudden cold water drowning has been succinctly described for decades.

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By: Moulton Avery https://paddlingmag.com/skills/safety-rescue-skills/flush-drowning-research/#comment-52911 Tue, 17 Oct 2023 19:38:42 +0000 https://paddlingmag.com/?p=34357#comment-52911 As the founder and director of the National Center for Cold Water Safety, I can speak with authority on the cold water connection. In this article Jeff correctly notes “Every second spent swimming in whitewater ups the odds of sucking in water”. However, the idea that cold water simply “slows us down” doesn’t begin to address the immediately life-threatening nature of an unprotected [no wetsuit or drysuit] cold water immersion.

To fully appreciate that danger, it’s necessary to understand two things: 1) Without thermal protection, most people will experience maximum-intensity cold shock when immersed in 50F – 60F (10 – 15C) water. 2) Cold shock is best understood as a complete loss of breathing control. It’s characterized by gasping, hyperventilation, and a greatly reduced ability to hold your breath. These are well-documented scientific facts. Loss of breathing control also causes swimming failure.

Now, imagine all these completely involuntary responses [you can’t control them] occurring as you’re being flushed through rapids, repeatedly submerged and overwashed by waves. It’s a combination that greatly increases the potential for inhaling water and suddenly drowning.

We discuss all of this in great detail on our website: http://www.coldwatersafety.org. The site has been live on the internet for almost 12 years. I believe it’s wise for anyone who plans on researching or writing about cold water safety to make sure that they’re very familiar with the information that’s available there.

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By: David Allen https://paddlingmag.com/skills/safety-rescue-skills/flush-drowning-research/#comment-52805 Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:57:28 +0000 https://paddlingmag.com/?p=34357#comment-52805 In reply to Tracy Hines.

I think you’ve also hit several nails on the head, Tracy. Have studies been done to check, initially, for correlation between general/cardiac fitness and drownings, or how long into the trip and drownings?
What about checking the blood oxygen levels of paddlers of varying fitness against time into the trip? Would this give any indication of how they would fare if they then had a swim?

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By: Tracy Hines https://paddlingmag.com/skills/safety-rescue-skills/flush-drowning-research/#comment-17358 Sat, 29 May 2021 15:43:27 +0000 https://paddlingmag.com/?p=34357#comment-17358 Swimming is a basic skill that is mandatory to have when participating in paddlesports. Knowing how to swim in whitewater is just as important as being able to paddle well.

Also, cardiac output is a measure of fitness that was not mentioned in the article. I would like to see an article written about what aspects of fitness serve to impact one’s ability to survive in cold water etc.

There is not enough written on the fitness traits that do serve to engender survival in cold water. These studies do exist.

The bottom line is that whitewater paddlesport is somewhat behind in reporting the human performance requirements to safely preform and excel in the sport.

It is possible to gain a great deal of technical expertise in paddle sports without having the fitness to manage in an adverse situation.

People spend time to prefect the ideal sport specific skill set without training the needed auxiliary fitness components to be able to manage in the varied environments where the rivers exist.

To most paddlers the fitness requirements for safe river travel are unknown.

This is in my mind what the deficit is. The reality is that paddling is not just a “recreational” endeavor like golf. Even the recreational user needs to have a base level of fitness to engage and even survive in the less than ideal environments that sometimes exist in nature.

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By: Marc https://paddlingmag.com/skills/safety-rescue-skills/flush-drowning-research/#comment-15272 Wed, 28 Apr 2021 07:23:48 +0000 https://paddlingmag.com/?p=34357#comment-15272 I am neither a medical professional nor a researcher, but I am an avid whitewater paddler who has run many rivers in the southeast, southwest and Pac Northwest. Personally, I understand the argument about cold water influencing flush drownings. The second of impact with really cold water will take away your breath and cause you to involuntarily deep breath resulting in taking in substantial water if you happen to get hit by a breaking wave just as you hit the water. I know about this from Big Mallard on the Main Salmon in Idaho, and the water was not all that cold that late July day.

The sudden shock of cold can cause involuntary reactions in the autonomic nervous system, whether in air or water, that nobody can be trained to overcome. But, you can wear the appropriate attire, and that definitely means whatever number and thickness of base layers you wear under a drysuit, or even a wetsuit, to insulate your core from cold water exposure.

The truth is that nobody really knows the true facts about any drowning because the only person who does know is not talking. I am actually contemplating getting and carrying attached to my body, but out of the way, a SpareAir 3.0 or 6.0 liter SCBA system to make sure I have clean, fresh air to breath when I am under water because I have had a LONG swim underwater from which I was certain I would not come back alive. The water was not cold, but when I ran out of air I instinctively and involuntarily opened my mouth and gasped for air taking in water in the process before fighting my way to the surface. Regardless of arguments over how and why people drown just take every precaution to prevent swimming and be prepared when you do. If your number is up the rest does not matter anyway!

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By: Constantine Roussos https://paddlingmag.com/skills/safety-rescue-skills/flush-drowning-research/#comment-10842 Fri, 08 Jan 2021 22:46:50 +0000 https://paddlingmag.com/?p=34357#comment-10842 Good article – brief but hits the nail on the head. One more point. The correlation between cold water and drowning is not entirely invalid. In my (mostly canoeing) experience when I flip into cold water I tend to gasp and am not able to get a good breath of air to hold. Being pushed downstream, going in and out of holes, waves, etc. makes it very difficult to acquire a good lungful of air to hold in order to time when I can inhale and when I need to hold my breath. In warmer water I will typically get a good breath of air and hold it until the next opportunity to safely release it and inhale again. Without being able to do this timing at some point I will be forced to attempt a deep breath when there is no safe opportunity and inhale/ingest water.

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